Curse

Dyeeo · Jun 09, 2005, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Some of you are probably going to say "god there are hundreds of these posts" but I am going to post this anyhow. I don’t mean to start a flame war and you may choose to just ignore me but if you are going to argue with me, at least try to see my side a bit?

A few facts first:
I like "farming"
I am a "normal" player

I see no reason why the game devs are so against farming.

Does farming contribute to the grind?
A: I dont think so. First of all, many people farm for fun. Its like gambling. There is that slight chance for a slight reward that makes it so nice. Do people farm to get an advantage over other people therefore making the other people grind? No, if there is some nice weapon upgrade or such that a person wants, it will take the exact same amount of actual time to get it as someone who does quests normally. The monsters also drop the same exact amount of drops for everyone. Sure the time period over days might be different but the actual time spent to get the items would be around the same no?

Normal players cant farm so therefore its unfair!
A: This is untrue as well. I am a normal player and I farm maybe 30 mins a day jsut to get enough gold to get by to buy armor and dyes, materials etc. I find farming much more enjoyable than doing some crazy quest sometimes. It’s nice to get a break from doing an objective just to go and get some items and gold.

Farming is harmful!
A: I sometimes farm for items that I would otherwise have no way of affording. These items include the infamous dragon sword. Does it create an imbalance in the game when one finds it from farming? No, in fact it is worse than many other swords, it just looks better. So why is everyone against me farming for the tiny chance to get them? All I want is some nice looking item that has no impact on actual gameplay. Some might say that only farmers can get those rare items. Well I can’t really dispute that but why it is a bad thing I do not understand. The swords just look different for god sakes. There are some of us who play just for pve. Looking good in pve means something (I know some of you will be like “stupid pve idiot”) Unfortunately, farming is the only way for some of us to get items such as the dragon sword and 15k armor. What is wrong with farming for 15k armor? If you took away farming, there would be NO way to get 15k armor. You can no longer sell runes for gold so that gets rid of that option. Pvp yields no gold gain other than celestial sigils which nobody will be able to buy anyhow except those who already have a ton of gold. This essentially makes the 15k armor the property of those few who have already farmed. This is fine except for the fact that now nobody else can get the armor. I just don’t see what the game is trying to reward by making the 15k armor so rare anyhow. Is the game trying to reward pvpers? No. Is the game trying to reward people who play the pve game? No. The 15k armor was made for those wanted to spend the extra time to look a little different. This is why the armor values are the same as their 1.5k counterparts. PvP people won’t even care about 15k armor so why worry about pve people farming in order to create the funds to make an armor set that just looks different?

What I am trying to say is, why has the guild wars dev team started a crusade against farming? There are some of us who like to farm for fun. There are some of us who actually want the 15k armor and special looking items not for an advantage in pvp but just to look good.

From what I see, there are no disadvantages from allowing farming. Sure some of you might think there are no advantages either but that is no reason to eliminate it. I may have missed some disadvantages so if you see any, please post them so I can comprehend them and respond to them.

BlaineTog · Jun 09, 2005, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Farming is boring and repetetive.

The Pope · Jun 09, 2005, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Farming provides a completely random chance of an unfair advantage in PvP.

Dyeeo · Jun 09, 2005, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Well maybe to you. You could just not farm you know :P Just because it is boring to you doesnt mean it should be eliminated.

Quote:

Farming provides a completely random chance of an unfair advantage in PvP.

Not sure what you mean by that

super dooper · Jun 09, 2005, 08:05 AM // 08:05

oh wow, that is almost exactly the way I see it. Which is why I'm kinda cheesed off. I had JUST finished getting a character to Thunderhead Keep so that I had everything I wanted to farm some guys in Talus Chute so I could build up gold for the 15k armors for my characters, (while putting the extra gold in the 'guild hall we'll never get' fund, we're a casual guild, group of friends rather, not hardcore PvP'ers)

Then I went to kill some of the monsters and.. I wasn't even getting drops from some of them, like, not just one guy didn't drop something here and there, 3-4 of the 5 or so I would kill wouldn't drop anything. That is the only thing about this update that has annoyed the *profanity* hell out of me. They kicked me in the arse.

Mistress Eyahl · Jun 09, 2005, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Farming provokes jealousy. For MANY different reasons.

The Pope · Jun 09, 2005, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Having more health than your opponent is unfair. Getting a superior vigor rune unlocked is random. Therefore, it is an unfair random advantage.

Tuna · Jun 09, 2005, 08:07 AM // 08:07

The fact of the matter is farming is not the way the developers want you to play the game. Its pretty much abuse of game mechanics and a mockery of the game itself. Saying that, I am an avid farmer

However, I do not enjoy farming and wish there was an alternative. Nerfing farming is fine with me, but not providing a reasonable way to get the same loot from actually playing the game is not. If I wanted everquest i'd play it. (note, I posted more on this in "Huge nerf to entire game."

Schorny · Jun 09, 2005, 08:09 AM // 08:09

This Game is designed for casual players, so there should be no benefit for playing more hours a day.

If someone farms 5 hours a day and another guy can play 1 hour a day, the farmer has an advantage because he got more runes, money, skill points, etc.

It is clear that someone who plays more will have some benefits, but in GW these benefits are as small as possible. Today a casual player will get many minor runes and a few major runes (not sure about superior ones) so the benefit is mainly the money, not the runes. That is so great about GW. Therefore farming threatens the game balance. I think it is good. Because to get a serious advantage you have to work hard.

InvaderGIR · Jun 09, 2005, 08:10 AM // 08:10

The way I see it, farming doesn't affect PvP in any way. Sure, they might get some better items, but since when has battles in Guild Wars been based on who has better items and stats? If I am correct, this is why we have a level cap of 20. That way, battles aren't determined by who outlevels who.

This goes for items as well. Don't believe me? Grab a weak sword and head into battle. Sure, you might not get the same type of damage you do, but if you use your character more skillfully than your opponent, you will still win. Remember, Guild Wars is based on skill. Not, stats.

And I kind of have to agree. There shouldn't be a need to put down farming either. After all, I doubt many of us would save enough gold from doing all the quests, playing the game straight through, and have 80k to spend. Not gonna happen especially since I reached Droknar's Forge my first time through with only around 20k spent. :P

Castanza · Jun 09, 2005, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

However, I do not enjoy farming and wish there was an alternative. Nerfing farming is fine with me, but not providing a reasonable way to get the same loot from actually playing the game is not. If I wanted everquest i'd play it. (note, I posted more on this in "Huge nerf to entire game."

actually they did say that they have provided a way to get the same loot and are still working on too

..."it is our intention to address the larger issue of the need for farming by assessing how players acquire and unlock items, runes, and skills, and then by taking steps to ensure that players can acquire and unlock these things through normal gameplay. We believe that the most effective way to play the game should also be the most fun way to play the game. You can expect to see the first meaningful changes towards this goal next week."

super dooper · Jun 09, 2005, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Are they just going to start handing out free gold? Completely ignoring these 'huge benefits', how do I, the person who couldn't care less about PvP right now, acquire this massive amount of gold needed to get the shiny new armor that I want?

If it's really that harmful to the game, they should remove the areas completely, or make it so you can't re-enter them after going through them once. Not leave them there so the next time you run through you kill all of the monsters in the area and get a whopping 600 gold. (not talking about Old Ascalon)

CtrlAltDel · Jun 09, 2005, 08:20 AM // 08:20

farming accelerates the introduction of items/gold into the games economy, thus throwing it out of wack and driving the game closer to D2...a way to maintain balance in the economy is to elminate the accelerated introduction of things into the economy...ie...nerfing farming areas

its all for the better

Dyeeo · Jun 09, 2005, 08:21 AM // 08:21

I really hope they do something. I see how some of you can say that farming provides an unfair advantage in pvp. If that is really true, then all I can say is DAMNIT because I don't care all that much about getting crazy runes or crazy items. All I want is some unique looking stuff like the ascension armor. It just kind of sucks that farming was eliminated because now, I am super jealous of those that did farm before and have the money to buy 15k armor because it looks so nice. Sure the game is based around pvp but that does not mean that they should totally ignore those who want to play pve to its fullest (I mean, after all, they did create a pve side of the game.) Why did the devs put 15k armor in the game in the first place? I am starting to think they just put it there to torment people because the armor goes against all the actions they have been doing.

=HT=Ingram · Jun 09, 2005, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Some people will prefer to do this then to play with others. and for them that's all great... If that's what you like then by all means do so. Its just a thing that is often frowned on. However the way the game is currently designed... its is a necessity. what people do not like is the framers that turn around and sell that stuff on EBay or whatever.. then it brings a nasty aspect into the game. CHEATING!!! People willing to buy game gold and items for REAL money. that's just sick. what happens is it becomes a business outside the game, and that is Very much frowned on, because one its against the EULA, and two it ruins the game by giving people unfair advantages over others playing the same amount of time.

So as long as your doing it for you... go for it. but if your one of this organizations that I DO NOT CONDONE that do nothing but Farm for runes gold and upgrades just to sell it for profit... then it will in the long run result in accounts getting banned from the system. there is already companies popping up doing this garbage which RUINED most of the other MMORPG games in a matter of weeks. Guess what. unfortunately GuildWars is going through this as we speak. and developers are monitoring those activities and BANNING accounts when they have the proof they need.

So word of warning... If someone is whispering you for invoice number and receipt number to get in-game items or gold, your prob going to get yourself banned...

Oh BTW, do you realize that many pieces of max armor classes are available from collectors. I told that to a ranger recently that had been framing for gold for weeks trying to get 15k armor pieces, and I told him I got mine for free from collectors and showed him where they were by taking him there. he about went nuts... But hey, that's the breaks... play the game and you find there are not the extreme barriers that there seems to be for stuff...

The Pope · Jun 09, 2005, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvaderGIR

The way I see it, farming doesn't affect PvP in any way. Sure, they might get some better items, but since when has battles in Guild Wars been based on who has better items and stats? If I am correct, this is why we have a level cap of 20. That way, battles aren't determined by who outlevels who.

This goes for items as well. Don't believe me? Grab a weak sword and head into battle. Sure, you might not get the same type of damage you do, but if you use your character more skillfully than your opponent, you will still win. Remember, Guild Wars is based on skill. Not, stats.

And I kind of have to agree. There shouldn't be a need to put down farming either. After all, I doubt many of us would save enough gold from doing all the quests, playing the game straight through, and have 80k to spend. Not gonna happen especially since I reached Droknar's Forge my first time through with only around 20k spent. :P

It does effect it. I agree that items won't just give you a win, they make a significant difference. Would you rather do 106 or 82 damage with your lightning orbs? Thats what a superior air rune does. Roughly 20% extra damage for a roughly 15% health reduction which can be mitigated with extra runes.

Dyeeo · Jun 09, 2005, 08:32 AM // 08:32

I agree totally that the selling of items on e-bay and such is horrible. Unfortunately for me, there really are no more spots to farm anymore haha.

Those who pvp look forward to gaining rank and celestial sigils. Those that pve look forward to getting unique looking items (basically the equivolent of rank.) The main end item is the 15k armor. With the elimination of farming, those that have not farmed before have no way of getting this armor. Sure we can sell the items we have picked from before. But in truth, the same amount of gold will get added to the economy "driving it wack." After I get my ascension armor, I wont care about farming anymore. I will probably just go back and help out people in need. However the way it is looking right now, I might just have to go back to ascalon city and run through all of the missions over and over and over just to get one piece of 15k armor.

Tuna · Jun 09, 2005, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castanza

actually they did say that they have provided a way to get the same loot and are still working on too

..."it is our intention to address the larger issue of the need for farming by assessing how players acquire and unlock items, runes, and skills, and then by taking steps to ensure that players can acquire and unlock these things through normal gameplay. We believe that the most effective way to play the game should also be the most fun way to play the game. You can expect to see the first meaningful changes towards this goal next week."

I addressed this in another post but the problem is that there is no solution now and there this no garuntee that the 'solution' will be sufficient.

Ranger Robert · Jun 09, 2005, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Farming distorts the entire game. This month's "Computer Gamer" describes Chinese farming sweatshops where they work 12 hours a day farming and then sell those things for cash. Do you want to reward such behavior ? To take out losers like that, you "normal" farmers are going to have to be taken out with them.

Dyeeo · Jun 09, 2005, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Thats like saying so and so furniture stores use child labor so therefore all furniture stores must die.